
Lisap
09-07 12:32 PM
Just curious.... When do they do the name check? Is it after the fingerprints are complete??
wallpaper David Duchovny Image

vbkris77
01-05 12:16 AM
Very true. Another advantage is, Citizenship doesn't have any number limitations. It will also help people waiting for GC as the queue gets even shorter. Instead of making it 10 Years from first port of entry, if it can be made as 5 years from say Priority Date for Green Card, it will cover many more people. Technically the person expressed intent to live in US after accepting a perm job. It is admin processing and Visa number limitations that are preventing the person from becoming a perm resident. So the change be sold as proper interpretation of the law because of changes in the circumstances but not really opening a flood gate for citizenship.

chanduv23
01-10 12:13 PM
Please don't give much credence to 'conspiracy theory' posts by paranoid folks like H1bmajdoor who live in fear of their own shadows. Neither do they understand the difference between a law AC21 and regulations ( USCIS frames these) nor do they care to learn. Their ignorance causes them fear, and fear causes them to act irrationally.
It's best to ignore such losers who beam negative-energy. Their penchant for inaction is a self-fulfilling prophecy that dooms their life. Nothing will happen to them in life, as they don't do anything to make things happen! . Don't join their league.
I second that. it is only because of these people who spread negativity and pessimism that we are still like this. These people are nothing but losers. Just losers in life coming on the forum and crying here.
Everyone visiting this site has to sit back and think and see what IV is doing and how IV maintains the positive outlook.
IV volunteers are firm and will not be influenced by these folks spreading negativity.
The message is clear - help IV to help yourself - do not spread bad and negative influence due to cowardice or fear or laziness
It's best to ignore such losers who beam negative-energy. Their penchant for inaction is a self-fulfilling prophecy that dooms their life. Nothing will happen to them in life, as they don't do anything to make things happen! . Don't join their league.
I second that. it is only because of these people who spread negativity and pessimism that we are still like this. These people are nothing but losers. Just losers in life coming on the forum and crying here.
Everyone visiting this site has to sit back and think and see what IV is doing and how IV maintains the positive outlook.
IV volunteers are firm and will not be influenced by these folks spreading negativity.
The message is clear - help IV to help yourself - do not spread bad and negative influence due to cowardice or fear or laziness
2011 David Duchovny

little_willy
11-10 01:38 PM
Just mailed the letters (4 each) for me and my wife. Thanks for the initiative guys....
more...

kvrr
08-17 09:09 AM
All,
Received CPO mail today for self, wife and son.
EB2 - India PD Oct 24 2005. NSC
I-485 receipt date: Sept 14 2007.
Opened SR on 08/09/2010
Received CPO mail today for self, wife and son.
EB2 - India PD Oct 24 2005. NSC
I-485 receipt date: Sept 14 2007.
Opened SR on 08/09/2010

bondgoli007
11-24 03:19 PM
punjabi,
If you can afford the payments and the loss in home value is not that much (20k per your earlier post is not that bad), it makes no sense to go into foreclosure. I do understand you were hoping to make a profit by now but bad luck.
I am assuming you can still afford payments because you are only thinking of selling to move to a different city for better job opportunities. I also would think you have no desire to buy another house in that new city. So your net income per month should be comfortable and not the driving force.
So why don't you just rent your house and wait out the tough times? If you can afford the payment, you will stand to gain long term by not going into foreclosure....You are losing not just your credit history but also any equity you built as well as any future prospective returns on the house. Not to mention all that interest payments down the drain.
Finally, though I share your thoughts on the unfortunate situation with the home prices falling, I do believe that you share equal responsibility for your financial decisions. So my humble advise is to take this as a learning experience and plan for both good and bad situations with important financial decisions.
All the best!!
If you can afford the payments and the loss in home value is not that much (20k per your earlier post is not that bad), it makes no sense to go into foreclosure. I do understand you were hoping to make a profit by now but bad luck.
I am assuming you can still afford payments because you are only thinking of selling to move to a different city for better job opportunities. I also would think you have no desire to buy another house in that new city. So your net income per month should be comfortable and not the driving force.
So why don't you just rent your house and wait out the tough times? If you can afford the payment, you will stand to gain long term by not going into foreclosure....You are losing not just your credit history but also any equity you built as well as any future prospective returns on the house. Not to mention all that interest payments down the drain.
Finally, though I share your thoughts on the unfortunate situation with the home prices falling, I do believe that you share equal responsibility for your financial decisions. So my humble advise is to take this as a learning experience and plan for both good and bad situations with important financial decisions.
All the best!!
more...

willwin
08-08 09:27 AM
I have the same question as I think, it is not possible. How can you re-apply for the same job you are in currently, in EB2?
If the job required a EB2 or EB3 but EB3 was filed earlier. Is that possible?
If the job required a EB2 or EB3 but EB3 was filed earlier. Is that possible?
2010 hot David Duchovny david

vkrishn
09-11 02:05 AM
Got an InfoPass scheduled, and created a SR. This is taking way too long, and now April + May approvals are rolling in...
jazz
I am sure you will get it. Response to a SR takes about 10-15 days. I opened my second SR on Aug 30th and got the response today. I was approved on Sep 7th.
Things i did from Aug 1st:-
Congresswoman (Zoe Lofgren): Her office helped me getting the PD correct in the USCIS system. When i made requested Zoe's office to enquire about my case they told me that PD is Feb 2007 instead of Feb 2006. I gave them my I140 and her office contacted NSC and NSC corrected the PD.
Ombudsman: Sent Email on Aug 10th and got a reply on Aug 11th that they will enquire with USCIS. Got a call from USCIS that my case is in transit.
AP approved on 08/26 and Soft LUD's on 08/27 and 09/02.
Attorney made a enquiry on August 25th about I485 with USCIS and was told to waiti 30 days.
Sep 7th: I485 approved.
Check to make sure your category and PD are correct in the USCIS system. Just to make sure.
jazz
I am sure you will get it. Response to a SR takes about 10-15 days. I opened my second SR on Aug 30th and got the response today. I was approved on Sep 7th.
Things i did from Aug 1st:-
Congresswoman (Zoe Lofgren): Her office helped me getting the PD correct in the USCIS system. When i made requested Zoe's office to enquire about my case they told me that PD is Feb 2007 instead of Feb 2006. I gave them my I140 and her office contacted NSC and NSC corrected the PD.
Ombudsman: Sent Email on Aug 10th and got a reply on Aug 11th that they will enquire with USCIS. Got a call from USCIS that my case is in transit.
AP approved on 08/26 and Soft LUD's on 08/27 and 09/02.
Attorney made a enquiry on August 25th about I485 with USCIS and was told to waiti 30 days.
Sep 7th: I485 approved.
Check to make sure your category and PD are correct in the USCIS system. Just to make sure.
more...

cbpds
04-05 04:08 PM
One might get a better answer from this thread
Donor Forum: Analysis for EB2IC based on new..
Donor Forum: Analysis for EB2IC based on new..
hair David Duchovny - are doing

god_bless_you
01-19 08:48 AM
http://www.irishlobbyusa.org./
Irish Lobbying for immigration reforms.. ILIR supports the Kennedy/McCain bill.
Immigrationvoice can touch base with them..
Irish Lobbying for immigration reforms.. ILIR supports the Kennedy/McCain bill.
Immigrationvoice can touch base with them..
more...

beautifulMind
09-24 11:11 PM
I am really confused. You have EB3 based 485. Are you working on EAD or on H1?
I have eb3 485 and am working on EB3 EAD. I do not have a h1b
Eb3 485 Filed on July 2007
Got a promotion at the same company in Jan 2009 and applied for Labor n Eb2 for the new position
Still wating for Perm approval in EB2
I have eb3 485 and am working on EB3 EAD. I do not have a h1b
Eb3 485 Filed on July 2007
Got a promotion at the same company in Jan 2009 and applied for Labor n Eb2 for the new position
Still wating for Perm approval in EB2
hot hairstyles hot tea leoni david

msp1976
06-29 08:11 PM
And I was hoping that my labor stuck at the BEC's will *hopefully* arrive just in time (before september - per what's embedded in BLACK LETTERS on the July VB and DOL) to give me enough to file 140/485... what an awful pathetic joke
My labor is also stuck in PBEC...
My labor is also stuck in PBEC...
more...
house of David Duchovny:

Caliber
06-16 11:21 AM
Let me ask you a simple question.. WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING THIS FRAUDULANT ACTIVITY??? .... think for a minute and then decide whether to reply me back or not.. bye....
Dear L1Fraud,
Please let me know if you need support from me. You can PM me.
When I complained to ICE and other authorities, I did not seek any support from this forum as there are many free raiders and will only pull you down. I and Angelfire did all alone. Angelfire did most of the job.
For any one who is opposing this, my question:
Why should US give us Green Cards? Why should they even extend H1 beyond 6 years?. If they do not extend H1, always new guys can keep coming on L1/H1 and the cost to employers will be much less. USCIS can have lots of money for H1 renewals. Only the body shoppers and end clients will benefit. Are you supporting more body shopping?
L1 dumping is VIOLATION. They can not work at client's place. When there is a competition, it should be on fair terms. If your pay is XXX K, other H1 or US Citizen/GC holder will compete with you for that salary plus minus 5-10 %. But these OUTSOURCE company's that dump L1 are competing for that job with 30-40 K. Can you guys believe this? Ask that guy from that BIG outsouce company, he will tell you, he is on H1. Take him for a drink, he will cry infront of you that he is paid peanuts and is on L1. He took this job as he wants to come to US and that his spouse can work. So he can afford to work for that peanut. Can H1 holder compete with these guys where our spouses can not work? Even Citizens and GC's can not compete due to cost of living being higher.
If you are on H1, at least you can not cheat on W2. But in L1, there is no minimum wage rule.
If you do not want to support the OP, it is OK. But do not stop some one trying to correct the violations.
Dear L1Fraud: May I request you to please become Donor? You can post such things in Donor forum and there you can have some meaningful debate and not personal attacks.
Dear L1Fraud,
Please let me know if you need support from me. You can PM me.
When I complained to ICE and other authorities, I did not seek any support from this forum as there are many free raiders and will only pull you down. I and Angelfire did all alone. Angelfire did most of the job.
For any one who is opposing this, my question:
Why should US give us Green Cards? Why should they even extend H1 beyond 6 years?. If they do not extend H1, always new guys can keep coming on L1/H1 and the cost to employers will be much less. USCIS can have lots of money for H1 renewals. Only the body shoppers and end clients will benefit. Are you supporting more body shopping?
L1 dumping is VIOLATION. They can not work at client's place. When there is a competition, it should be on fair terms. If your pay is XXX K, other H1 or US Citizen/GC holder will compete with you for that salary plus minus 5-10 %. But these OUTSOURCE company's that dump L1 are competing for that job with 30-40 K. Can you guys believe this? Ask that guy from that BIG outsouce company, he will tell you, he is on H1. Take him for a drink, he will cry infront of you that he is paid peanuts and is on L1. He took this job as he wants to come to US and that his spouse can work. So he can afford to work for that peanut. Can H1 holder compete with these guys where our spouses can not work? Even Citizens and GC's can not compete due to cost of living being higher.
If you are on H1, at least you can not cheat on W2. But in L1, there is no minimum wage rule.
If you do not want to support the OP, it is OK. But do not stop some one trying to correct the violations.
Dear L1Fraud: May I request you to please become Donor? You can post such things in Donor forum and there you can have some meaningful debate and not personal attacks.
tattoo David Duchovny

ras
08-08 10:06 AM
Good job analysing this particular issue. Appreciate ur patience in sharing with others.
The contents of this postings are based on what I have read from various Lawyer's website and my lawyer's suggestions.
Multiple I-485 Fillings Scenario:
1. Two I-485 for the with the same primary applicant
Case a: One I-140/I-485 Pending with another employer and one I-140/I-485 to be filed in July with the current employer.
Case b: One I-140/I-485 Pending due to substituted labor (and cannot be expedited because premium processing not available). Another I-485 to be filed based on approved I-140 (on one's own labor). Both from the same employer.
2. Two I-485 with different primary applicants (Primary on one and dependent on other)
Case a: I-140 for one is approved while other's pending
Case b: Both I-140 Approved
Case c: Both filling concurrently in June
Pros and Cons
Scenario 1, Case a: In this case there is a substantial risk that I-485 filed with first employer might lead to issues esp if I-140 is not approved. Thus is a good idea to file another one with current employer. (Pro)
Scenario 1, Case a: How can one Adjust the Status from two employer at the same time. (Con)
Scenario 1, Case b: Since first I-485 application is already filed and I-140's outcome is not known. It is a good idea to file another one as a fall back option. If one waits for the outcome of first I-140 and it is denied and then it will be too late to file another I-485 because dates might have retrogressed.
Scenario 2, Case a: One with the approved I-140 should file I-485 with other as dependent.
Scenario 2, Case b: I-485 for both is almost ensured and thus filling two will give added cover in case something happens. One might have a better priority date than other. (Pro)
Scenario 2, Case b: Job loss of one would still allow other with AC-21 benefits. (Pro)
Scenario 2, Case b:Only one of the two partners has to stick to the job description and other is free to pursue anything (including studies).
Scenario 2, Case c: Use I-140 Premium Processing on at least one application for added certainty.
Summary of Pros and Cons
Pros:
1. More flexibility as there are two applications to fall back on.
2. Only opportunity to file EAD/AP before retrogression kicks in.
3. Useful if I-140 is pending and outcome of it is unknown.
4. There are NO USCIS memos that prohibits such filling explicitly.
5. Many lawyers have recommended this as a best option.
6. It has been mentioned that USCIS cancels the second I-485 after approving the other. That makes this a hassle free option.
7. If there are issues with multiple filling one of the application can be withdrawn.
8. If later on it turns out two application is a norm and right thing to do and retrogression hits one has no one to blame but himself.
Cons:
1. Cost of two fillings (if paid by self)
2. There have been indications by lawyers that two fillings could lead to unnecessary delays and interviews.
3. Apart from delays there has been indications that USCIS might issue an
RFE and ask to choose one.
Conclusion
========
There is nothing wrong with two filings, worst case scenario could be an RFE from USCIS to choose one. Best case scenario is USCIS upon approving one cancels other. Two filings indeed give you a peace of mind and reduce risk during the process. It doesn't change the outcome (like your application will not be denied just because you have filed two). If a little delay is acceptable to you as a price you pay to reduce a bigger risk and added benefits then multiple filing is right thing to do.
The contents of this postings are based on what I have read from various Lawyer's website and my lawyer's suggestions.
Multiple I-485 Fillings Scenario:
1. Two I-485 for the with the same primary applicant
Case a: One I-140/I-485 Pending with another employer and one I-140/I-485 to be filed in July with the current employer.
Case b: One I-140/I-485 Pending due to substituted labor (and cannot be expedited because premium processing not available). Another I-485 to be filed based on approved I-140 (on one's own labor). Both from the same employer.
2. Two I-485 with different primary applicants (Primary on one and dependent on other)
Case a: I-140 for one is approved while other's pending
Case b: Both I-140 Approved
Case c: Both filling concurrently in June
Pros and Cons
Scenario 1, Case a: In this case there is a substantial risk that I-485 filed with first employer might lead to issues esp if I-140 is not approved. Thus is a good idea to file another one with current employer. (Pro)
Scenario 1, Case a: How can one Adjust the Status from two employer at the same time. (Con)
Scenario 1, Case b: Since first I-485 application is already filed and I-140's outcome is not known. It is a good idea to file another one as a fall back option. If one waits for the outcome of first I-140 and it is denied and then it will be too late to file another I-485 because dates might have retrogressed.
Scenario 2, Case a: One with the approved I-140 should file I-485 with other as dependent.
Scenario 2, Case b: I-485 for both is almost ensured and thus filling two will give added cover in case something happens. One might have a better priority date than other. (Pro)
Scenario 2, Case b: Job loss of one would still allow other with AC-21 benefits. (Pro)
Scenario 2, Case b:Only one of the two partners has to stick to the job description and other is free to pursue anything (including studies).
Scenario 2, Case c: Use I-140 Premium Processing on at least one application for added certainty.
Summary of Pros and Cons
Pros:
1. More flexibility as there are two applications to fall back on.
2. Only opportunity to file EAD/AP before retrogression kicks in.
3. Useful if I-140 is pending and outcome of it is unknown.
4. There are NO USCIS memos that prohibits such filling explicitly.
5. Many lawyers have recommended this as a best option.
6. It has been mentioned that USCIS cancels the second I-485 after approving the other. That makes this a hassle free option.
7. If there are issues with multiple filling one of the application can be withdrawn.
8. If later on it turns out two application is a norm and right thing to do and retrogression hits one has no one to blame but himself.
Cons:
1. Cost of two fillings (if paid by self)
2. There have been indications by lawyers that two fillings could lead to unnecessary delays and interviews.
3. Apart from delays there has been indications that USCIS might issue an
RFE and ask to choose one.
Conclusion
========
There is nothing wrong with two filings, worst case scenario could be an RFE from USCIS to choose one. Best case scenario is USCIS upon approving one cancels other. Two filings indeed give you a peace of mind and reduce risk during the process. It doesn't change the outcome (like your application will not be denied just because you have filed two). If a little delay is acceptable to you as a price you pay to reduce a bigger risk and added benefits then multiple filing is right thing to do.
more...
pictures David Duchovny Reusable Bag

sethurama
05-20 11:35 PM
My PD is current. I have opted for CP when my I-140 was filed. Can I file 485 now?. Do I need to file any papers with NVC/CIS to transfer from CP to 485?.
Thanks for your tile
Thanks for your tile
dresses Tags: david duchovny
logiclife
07-09 06:38 PM
Good thing: Walter Reed.
Something happening at Walter Reed Hospital has more value in newsworthiness than something happening at headquarters of USCIS offices. Coz Walter Reed means veterans means military means extra media attention.
Something happening at Walter Reed Hospital has more value in newsworthiness than something happening at headquarters of USCIS offices. Coz Walter Reed means veterans means military means extra media attention.
more...
makeup David Duchovny plays Hank
Libra
01-12 02:00 PM
Please cast vote on the tracker thread.
Just mailed letter to President and a copy to Immivoice.
Just mailed letter to President and a copy to Immivoice.
girlfriend David Duchovny

JerseyCouple
01-05 12:33 AM
-interviewed on 28th Dec
-officer said that I will have to wait at least 48 working hours for an approval email and on receiving email should submit the envelopes given by them, copy of I-797, copy of approval email.
-havent received any email as of today - 5th Jan 2008.
- Does anybody know if I will face further delays since mine is an Adj of Status case ?
- wish I had got my AP before I travelled, unfortunately had to come due to some urgency..
JerseyCouple
I-485 receipt date - July 2nd 2007
I-140 approval - Jan 2007
EB2/PD-Sept 2003
did not apply for AP since I got the H1B extension till 2010 based on approved I-140
-officer said that I will have to wait at least 48 working hours for an approval email and on receiving email should submit the envelopes given by them, copy of I-797, copy of approval email.
-havent received any email as of today - 5th Jan 2008.
- Does anybody know if I will face further delays since mine is an Adj of Status case ?
- wish I had got my AP before I travelled, unfortunately had to come due to some urgency..
JerseyCouple
I-485 receipt date - July 2nd 2007
I-140 approval - Jan 2007
EB2/PD-Sept 2003
did not apply for AP since I got the H1B extension till 2010 based on approved I-140
hairstyles Labels: David Duchovny, Sex

ramus
06-29 08:10 PM
Core members:
Do you have any thoughts on this? Should we get ready for law suit and help AILA with this?
Please comment?
Damn this sucking life man, no social life, no career life, no nothing life. Even animals must be living a better and meaningful life. It sucks big time, did it ever happen in history that uscis revised a visa bulletin on the day it is supposed to go into effect ....
We must fill their mailbox guys, let tham know this cannot be accepted.
uscis.webmaster@dhs.gov
National Customer Service Center (NCSC) at 1-800-375-5283 (TTY 1-800-767-1833)
Do you have any thoughts on this? Should we get ready for law suit and help AILA with this?
Please comment?
Damn this sucking life man, no social life, no career life, no nothing life. Even animals must be living a better and meaningful life. It sucks big time, did it ever happen in history that uscis revised a visa bulletin on the day it is supposed to go into effect ....
We must fill their mailbox guys, let tham know this cannot be accepted.
uscis.webmaster@dhs.gov
National Customer Service Center (NCSC) at 1-800-375-5283 (TTY 1-800-767-1833)
JA1HIND
01-26 05:45 PM
After we landed, the passengers were asked to exit the aircraft along with their carry bags. Many of us were puzzled as some of us wanted to catch up with our sleep. Reluctantly everyone had to leave the aircraft. Someone was saying there is another aircraft waiting to take us to India. Makes sense, that is why they asked us to take our cabin bags too. After we entered the building we were asked to take the left door. Behind the right door was a waiting room. A couple of turns led us into a corridor which was probably about 1/2 mile long. At the end of the corridor there was security check. Again I was puzzled, why security check now, we are already in a secure area. The transit visa form with those 111 questions suddenly came in front of my eyes. Nothing less than a new complete security check will satisfy these neurotic people. It was time to go thru the exercise again. Took off the shoes, wallet, coins, Jacket, belt, pants .... when I was gently reminder by the security guard that it was not required today. When my turn came to send the items thru the machine, I complained about the fact that I have to put my jacket in a bin that was probably used earlier to keep someone�s shoes. (And you know where the shoes go. And sometimes when it gets wet, it is not necessarily because of water. The thought itself was so revolting that I decided to get my jacket dry-cleaned after I reached India). Needless to say my protest landed on deaf ears. After going thru the security gate, it was time to go thru the final check. I assumed the flying eagle's position and was quickly scanned and cleared. Beyond the security point was the shopping and restaurant area. I was bit thirsty but could not force myself to spend on a bottle of water. I was so put off by this whole experience that I did not want to spend a single cent here. We looked at the monitor to find our gate and quickly proceeded towards it. Again we walked for about half a mile or so. Things looked familiar, but I quickly brushed off the idea. At the gate we presented our credentials and were admitted into the waiting area. Then again I got a sense of d�j� vu. I soon realized it was the same freaking waiting room that I saw earlier and the same aircraft was waiting for us. We needlessly walked for more than a mile, subjected ourselves thru security check. All this for what?
After waiting for an hour we were allowed to go into the aircraft to the same seats and surrounded by the same little pieces of garbage still on the floor. I congratulated myself for not buying the water bottle and looked out of the window to say final goodbye to London. Never again! Never.
Brit's think they are born twice & superior to the world and they can do better job in security checks then Americans....or as a matter of fact then any one else in the world?
I am not saying there shouldn't be any security checks but one thing is not clear or don't understand why do we have to go through security check process when nothing has could have changed in between flight take off from US and landing at Heathrow airport..I feel the possibility of someone getting into flight after its take off is ZERO chance....
What irritates me is when I travel through AIR-INDIA (proud passenger since 2001) stopover at London is right in the middle of night..you will be in deep sleep when it stops in London for fuel refill or some s*$^ we have to get down from plane and go through security check..it's so annoying I don't know when these security checks/stunts will STOP!!
After waiting for an hour we were allowed to go into the aircraft to the same seats and surrounded by the same little pieces of garbage still on the floor. I congratulated myself for not buying the water bottle and looked out of the window to say final goodbye to London. Never again! Never.
Brit's think they are born twice & superior to the world and they can do better job in security checks then Americans....or as a matter of fact then any one else in the world?
I am not saying there shouldn't be any security checks but one thing is not clear or don't understand why do we have to go through security check process when nothing has could have changed in between flight take off from US and landing at Heathrow airport..I feel the possibility of someone getting into flight after its take off is ZERO chance....
What irritates me is when I travel through AIR-INDIA (proud passenger since 2001) stopover at London is right in the middle of night..you will be in deep sleep when it stops in London for fuel refill or some s*$^ we have to get down from plane and go through security check..it's so annoying I don't know when these security checks/stunts will STOP!!
ashkam
11-26 08:35 AM
Lost in all this is the fact that Punjabi wants to sell his house not because he cannot afford it anymore, but because he wants to move to a different city to a higher paying job and can't be bothered to take responsibility for his failed real estate venture. He could have done the ethical thing and stayed in his present job and paid off his loan but he is choosing not to. And who does he blame for his situation? The concept of the "American dream". So the fact that he wants to shirk his responsibilities in favor of foisting his own debt onto the rest of the country isn't his own fault, it's the "American Dream" that's making him do this. It's not exigent financial circumstances that are causing him to foreclose, it is greed and shortsightedness (colloquially known as "The American Dream"). Greed and shortsightedness already caused him to go 20K under the water. And they will now make him screw up his own credit history. If someone cannot learn from one mistake, I say let him keep making mistakes. He will soon find out how difficult life in the US can be if you don't have a good credit history. As for the burden on us taxpayers, hey, we've been spending 10 billion a week for the past 5 years dropping bombs on people, what's a mere 20K?

